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of being destroyed. I started off with such things as Socrates and Christ; Gandhi. While some of my closest friends in the American Psychological Association were disturbed at that introduction, Martin wasn't. He accepted it.

Do you have a copy of that introduction?

I don't know where it is.

If you should ever find it--

It was many years ago. It was before I was president of the American Psychological Association. 1960.

I think you made a reference, perhaps somewhat fleeting--I don't think you used the word “envy” or “competition”, but was there some degree of envy between Roy Wilkins and Martin Luther King, or some negative feelings?

They're human. You know, there they'd been working in the vineyards for years, and been in the forefront (it's a mixed metaphor) of the basic struggles that led up to the Brown decision. There was Thurgood. And here comes this young man who is catapulted into national and international prominence. They're human. There's some degree of jealousy and competitiveness. But I think they handled it--all things taken into account--fairly well.