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Absolutely. The pressure was just terrible. And unjust. Because all that they said about Andy was that he was in a discussion that was seeking to lead to the benefit of the Israelis, trying to prevent a negative resolution. It was certainly not an anti-Israeli move on Andy's part.

Did you ever have the impression that Andy did lean to one side there, or did you have the impression that he sought to be even-handed as between the Israelis--

Obviously I'm not objective, but I certainly felt that Andy was identified with Carter's Middle East policy, and was trying to contribute as much as he could to serious negotiation among the sides. I never heard Andy say anything that indicated a bias against the Israelis. But what he did feel is that they had to talk. A number of people still feel that way, including Mr. [Secretary of State George] Schultz.

Can you imagine Andy, in even the most private conversation, referring to “Hymies” and “Hymietown”?

No. I think that was stupid of Jesse Jackson. No, I can't. Andy isn't that kind of person. He doesn't have that Jesse Jackson sort of flair.

We did discuss Jesse Jackson in the last interview, but I may not have asked this question. Do you believe that Jesse Jackson's using