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I'm not sure. I think that Ray became chairman after ‘65.

In any event he was at that time a district leader?

Yes.

He was in the Assembly?

And probably-- well, he was close to Adam for a while, and then was in conflict with Adam. And at the time I became a Regent, I think he and Adam had split.

Well, of course, wasn't it when Ray Jones was running for his first term to the City Council that Adam Powell was either honorary chairman or co-chairman of his campaign committee, and on the Sunday before the primary came out against him at a press conference.

Oh, really? I vaguely remember that. I knew they had conflict, all kinds of conflict.

I don't have the quotes here, but I have a record of it. And I remember afterwards I called Ray Jones, who said, “Adam can dish it out. Now we'll see if he can take it.”

You mentioned later on, that when there was a little more