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come in from Temple, the Temple merger.

Yes.

Why did he want it?

I'm not sure. I would guess that Shepley sold him the idea.

Why did Shepley want it? I mean, what was going on at that moment that--

[pause] I've never really been quite sure.

Was there any significance to the suggestion at all that you recall, or it was just one of many forms that was being talked about as your retirement approached?

I guess so. And I guess that my lack of enthusiasm-- because of my lack of enthusiasm for it, it just died.

Apparently in August of 1979--that would be a year before your retirement--you and Shepley created a corporate operations office consisting of Munro, Davedson and Grum, along with Dick McKeough and Bear. I guess it was supposed to--

No, we're--