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Well, I should think theysd know by the fact that the hospitals are more empty that the incidence was going down. But that's -- they -- the head of the Heart Institute is ashamed or is afraid or is too academic, to wish to admit that they've used “common” advertising methods to get people to go and get treatment. And so, the average doctor interested in heart or stroke is writing the most foolish articles you can imagine, trying to find out why it is that this decline in deaths has happened.

I wrote a letter to Dr. -- to the NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL, exposing this, in response to an editorial written by Dr. Levy, the head of the National Heart Institute. I really think I ought to give you the leading editorial and my reply to it.

I think you should. Indeed. You don't often do this sort of thing.

Never. But it made me so mad, it was such God damn nonsense, that I just thought, I'm going to have to-

And that was this editorial?

He wrote an editorial saying that, this has all happened and now they must find out why. And then I wrote a letter saying, that I thought his article, editorial was very thoughtful and interesting, but he was too modest. And then I detailed what had been done to make this happen, and that he was the head of the effort. The fact that the effort had started before he got