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Frances PerkinsFrances Perkins
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an idea of that sort could be in anybody's mind. At once he began to explain or apologize, as did everybody else. Without doing it consciously, she put them on the defensive for all their evil and materialistic faults. It was a beautiful sight. I saw it so many times so that I got to admire it. It was so naive on her part. She had no guile in her when she did it. You wouldn't call her a clever woman who was pulling strings; she had never made an analysis of the male mind that was before her or of the politician's mind. She assumed that everybody was good and devoted to human welfare. It made her enormously effective. She had a great conscience, a very keen mind, understood everything, learned the lessons very well indeed and had this enormous moral influence with the commission.

She became, of course, a very close friend of Al Smith's, of Wagner's, of Abram I. Elkus', and of the others who didn't want to go as far as she did. They loved her. Mr. Elkus was Counsel and the Assistant Counsel was Bernard Shientag, now a judge in New York.

I was much younger than anybody on the commission and not a personage in New York at all, but I did know a great deal about the subject. I was one of the few people who knew anything about factories. I was constantly being called





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