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to tell a story, but the hatred of the Southern Pacific Railroad. The Southern Pacific Railroad must have done him or his father dirt. He really was passionate. That was The Pit and The Octopus. He talked about the Southern Pacific Railway when he was in New York. I think it was from him that I got the first story I ever got about the old battle, the standing war, between the Southern Pacific Railroad and the Phelps-Dodge Company.

That involved Cleveland Dodge, the head of the Dodge family then, the Phelps family and Arthur Curtis James, who only died a few years ago. I remember it was Frank Norris that I heard these tales from, but I didn't really believe it. I thought he was just spinning a yarn to entertain the people, or something or other. I seem to think that Arthur Bullard vouched for him and said that he was telling what he knew. Years later, while I was Secretary of Labor, I had an occasion to make an official visit to Bisbee, Jerome and the whole copper mining area around there. I heard from the lips of Mr. Valentine, who was the then manager of the whole Phelps-Dodge properties - the whole outfit - and who was himself an elderly man, and whose father had been with Phelps-Dodge before, the same story of the battle.

They had regular shooting battles with the Southern Pacific. You worked for the Phelps-Dodge Company and you