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Sam was always around, and he probably was, but I just don't remember it. I remember other people who aren't nearly as important as he was later who seemed to be around. I always recognize them when I see them, meeting them in the halls at campaign times and so forth, but I don't remember Sam Rosenman until some time during the Roosevelt administration as Governor.

I worked for both Smith and Roosevelt. I worked on the Democratic State Committee's Woman's Division on their campaign for Roosevelt. I made a tremendous amount of speeches for Smith. Mary Eben was an active agent of the Speaker's Bureau at that time. She was very clever. She was a secretarial type of person, but with a little more than a secretary's gumption, initiative, outlook and so forth. She routed us, bought our railroad tickets, told us who you'd meet here or there.

I went along with Roosevelt in the New York State campaign a number of times. I went along on an automobile trip with him. I remember plainly being at the Syracuse State Fair with him. That I remember plainly - his riding around the track. I remember that at two or three other State Fairs. I remember that I was at a meeting with him in Utica.

Roosevelt held out well. It was during this period that