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don't recall her in the early campaigns. She may have been, but I certainly never met her and she was not in any of the committees I was on. She's pretty young. I don't believe that she was around, though she may have been. If she was, she was in some very inconspicuous thing - maybe in some state committee somewhere. I don't think she was in the works very heavily. She wasn't even in the works very heavily when Roosevelt was running. It was the second or third term before she became really noticeable.

Mrs. J. Borden Harriman was always in all these things. She's been a member of the National Democratic Committee for years. She represents the District of Columbia, which although it doesn't vote, has representation like a state on the National Committee. She's been a national committeewoman for years. She was on too high a level for the kind of campaigning I did in 1928. She went to the big meetings and sat on the platforms in the big meetings. She rose and spoke in the great meetings.

I even think she spoke briefly, and she was on the platform anyhow, at that great final meeting of Al Smith's at Madison Square Garden. It was that huge, magnificent one, where Virginia Gildersleeve of Barnard was the woman chosen to speak and made a beautiful speech. Al made a great