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One problem that I had was the problem of the uninsured employers - that is, uninsured under the New York State Workmen's Compensation Law. The law required them to be insured under workmen's compensation, but many of them would take a chance on not being insured. These were all little employers, not big ones. No big employer could afford to do it, but the little fellows and the little men in offhand, unimportant industries took the chance. I remember that I talked with him about that.

I got in serious trouble with the window cleaners of New York who were always evading insurance - that is, the window cleaning companies were. They have a very great hazard. One of the reasons that they evaded insurance was not only that they were fly-by-nights, but that because of the excessive hazard, because they took so little precaution against that hazard, because they employed a group of men who frequently were illiterate and perhaps reckless, they had a terrible accident rate - very, very high accident rate and a very high degree of disability resulting from the accidents. They had an undue proportion of death cases and a very high proportion of total disabilities, if they didn't have death. They had a minimum number of these small accidents which an ordinary employer would have, where a man broke his little finger and it mends up in no time.