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He was rejecting Mrs. Moskowitz. He made that clear. He didn't say anything nasty about it, but he just thought it was better not to have her around. When I spoke to him about it, he said the same thing to me, “I just thought it was better not to have Mrs. Moskowitz.” He didn't believe it would go. She knew that and chose to regard it as a defect in his character because he didn't want her. If she had taken it in the spirit of, “Well, people vary. There are some people that like me and some don't. That's all right,” there would have been no reason why Smith should have been alienated from him.

She set out to alienate Smith from Roosevelt. There's no doubt about it. Louis Howe certainly did his part. He chose to regard her and Al as enemies, because he thought they shed less light on Franklin than he thought ought to be put on him. I think without the influence of Howe and Mrs Moskowitz - and I hold Louis equally guilty - Roosevelt and Smith would have ambled along in a kind of friendly, but perhaps not too intimate way. I don't know that they could ever have been intimates.

I don't think that during the period when they were widely advertised as close political friends, they were close friends, leaving out the political. Many people, including Al and many other people, were not aware of the