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good. In other words, he had a perfect American-Irish mother complex that mother is always right and you always listen to her. I have used that phrase and that picture because with my generation it was quite common for people to feel the necessity for pushing off their mother's advice at some time and standing on their own.

I tried to explain to him on two different occasions that on account of Roosevelt's sickness and his crippledness he had a more than ordinary necessity to demonstrate himself as a political entity able to operate alone. I don't know that I succeeded, although he would grunt and say, “Hm, hm, yeah, well perhaps, yeah, well, I see. Well, I've got nothing against Frank and would be delighted to see him any time.”

Al always retained an outward expression of entire goodwill toward Roosevelt with me, but it was not enthusiastic and he obviously was on the outs. He'd always come when Roosevelt wanted to see him. I'd sometimes make efforts to get Roosevelt to telephone him, and he did. He telephoned him about a number of things. I would think up things that would be a natural to telephone him about and that were not something that anyone could advise him about. I think Al would talk to him honorably about those things, tell him what he knew and what he thought. But the relationship was not