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key to the garment industry's unions. Hillman even went so far as to say that the unions in the garment industry existed for the purpose of paying tribute to Tom “So-and-So” - I forget his name now - who was the head of the Union Label Department, and that's all that it did. They put the union label on anything and Tom “So-and-So” got a quid pro quo for it. He charged a lot for the service. That was one of the chief activities of the AF of L and it was one of the things that kept alive this conflict between Hillman and the AF of L. This Union Label Department was very angry at the Amalgamated.

So asking Hillman and Dubinsky was in itself a very radical thing to do. They didn't particularly enjoy having John Lewis come because they were a little on the outs with him. However, he was a regular member of the AF of L, though not of the Executive Committee. He always tried to horn in on the Executive Committee, but they kept him out.

In other words, they would have liked an exclusive meeting with the Executive Committee of the AF of L, saying, “These people represent all of labor.” That would have included Dan Tobin. However, I felt that if I were to do it at all, I must get this broader group in. Of course, in New York we had known the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of