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him in the corridor of the white House. Again I accosted him for a few words of conversation. I said, “I think things are really quite a lot better, Mr. Berle. I think there's new courage.” By this time the relief program had got underway.” We were about to launch NRA. On the surface everything looked encouraging, but, of course, Adolph Berle was looking at the basic underlying economy, the spiritual and psychological reactions of the people. I learned later that he had a psychological theory as to what the people would stand and what they wouldn't stand.

He said, “Perhaps it is better. It's just barely possible that you're right. But I have no confidence that any of these projects will make any difference in the great upheaval that's going on.”

I said, “What upheaval?”

He said, “The people can't stand this, you know. Don't you understand, Miss Perkins, that human beings will not endure suffering beyond a certain point, and the suffering has got so intense that is cannot be relieved and cannot be mix with this line endured?”

I remember saying to him, “Oh, nonsense, Mr. Berle. You've no idea how much more human beings can endure, particularly if they see a ray of hope. They can always hold out another day, another week. They can go on from one short period to another short period, if someone is