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I do not know what had been discussed in Mr. Hoover's Cabinet or whether anybody did raise the questions of relief. We don't know that. I have no record. Nobody ever told me. However, the Roosevelt Cabinet was for relief. Those of us outside of the Hoover administration all over the country, who had observed what was going on, had said that relief was necessary and that it would have to be larger than the state or municipal program, because the unemployment and the poverty was worst in the states where they had exceeded their debt limit, couldn't borrow any more money and couldn't get any more money. It was very serious in many parts of the country. I don't remember that anybody in the Hoover Cabinet had publicly said that direct relief of some sort was necessary, but everybody in the Roosevelt cabinet, which came in March '33, certainly said, as it went around the table, - and I'm positive of this - that relief and quick relief must be given. It would have to be through federal funds.

We had been seeing hardship and poverty. We had been blaming the Hoover administration for doing nothing. So in the first weeks of the new administration there wasn't much of any doubt but that we would have to do a pure relief program at was same time that we thought we were committed to a public works program - real public works - as one of