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first month Mrs. Rumsey thought he was the solution to all the problems, because he had a clear, analytical presentation of it. But you present there clear, analytical positions to a committee made up of labor men and employers and they just seem cockeyed to them. They weren't interested. It didn't have anything to do with their case. It was too pure economics.

Johnson would then come at him with a suggestion such as, “Now, Dr. Ogburn, could we fix it up this way? Could we have this, but not this?”

Ogburn would never take that. People would say, “They're determined to have this marketing agreement so what are we going to do. We can't get industry going any other way.”

Ogburn's answer would always then be, “You're going at it the wrong way anyhow.” It proved very difficult and it was painful because he got his feelings hurt. As soon as anybody didn't agree with him or go along with him his feelings were hurt. He was always threatening to resign and put a piece in the paper as to why he resigned. It got to be very difficult.

I don't remember the outcome. I don't remember whether he left in a rage before the NRA blew up, or not. He had the reputation in Chicago of having been very much interested in labor unions and having prepared economic reports for labor unions, but you know how much use labor unions ever made of