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who were the productive workers in a mill, because he then wouldn't have been able to sell the goods he made in competition with other mills who didn't have his high principles.

In other words, we managed in conversation to modify his philosophical problem and the philosophical offense that he took at this idea of a union coming in to be a fighter against the employer when the workers really ought to be the brothers and co-workers with an employer, and vice versa. He honestly held these ideas. I know they were true.

However, while he was here, I said to him, “Now, we've gone over some of these things together, but I'd like to have you meet a couple of union leaders who aren't in your industry at all - just to talk it over philosophically.”

So I asked him to lunch with Sidney Hillman and Arthur Wharton from the Machinists' Union. I held no brief for Arthur Wharton. As a matter of fact, he was somewhat difficult. He was a Republican among other things. Of course, this man from Avondale was a good, warm-hearted Democrat. He was a member of the Democratic party and a good Alabama man. He was crazy about Roosevelt and all that. He was very well-disposed and he was honorable. He wasn't like Ely Callaway, who was trying to pull the wool over the President's eyes. He and his brother,