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The President said, “I guess you're right, Homer.”

I never heard the President say to Homer, “Go to work and plan somethings.” I doubt if he did. But I know from what Harold Stephens tells me that from about that time on, whatever research that Cummings had had made earlier, he redoubled. He had more studies made in the Department of Justice by younger men whom he had under his control. He began to refuse to talk with Stephens about the plan that he had in mind. Stephens is a very tactful man and was on very good terms with Cummings. About a year before the court packing plan was announced Stephens said to him, “I think you must be very careful with any proposals made with regard to the court. In the first place, we must be sure that it's practical. In the second place, we must be sure that it's not something that's going to offend the general judgments and prejudices of the people.”

Sometime within '36 a bill was introduced into Congress to provide for the retirement of Supreme Court Justices at a certain age, or thereafter, on full salary for life. The bill went to the Judiciary Committee in the House, which was presided over by Hatton Sumners. Hatton Sumners was very much interested in this, and took it upon himself to discuss it a good deal and to