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That was just one of the conversations that I had with the many people I called up, some of whom, on the basis of just a telephone conversation, I decided I didn't want to go on with. I would just thank them for their interest. Others I would persuade and persuade, get them to come down to Washington and talk it over, and then they would reluctantly say they'd rather not. We had a dreadful time getting anybody to take any of the posts on it. The three posts were all well paid for the government. It was still near the depression and $10,000 jobs were not easy to get. So the money was an aid, not a deterrent.

After about 8 or 10 people had turned me down I heard about J. Warren Madden, Dean of the Law School at Pittsburgh University. I think it was a man whom I knew at the University of Pittsburgh, and who was a Professor of Sociology there, who first mentioned him to me. And he was also recommended by Bakke of Yale.

I was trying to find someone somewhere who would be liberal, impartial, intelligent, cooperative and well disposed to Roosevelt. Madden was a very good and agreeable man.

I had become desperate by this time, couldn't get anyone to take the chairmanship, because I wanted to