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Leiserson and Reilly went into the Labor Relations Board later on.

So life became pretty difficult with regard to the National Labor Relations Act and its enforcement. Wagner, of course, didn't have anything to do with the administration of the act, but sometimes I thought he was taken in by some of the same talk that took in Madden, who was a very good man, and that took in Edwin Smith.

I might as well say this now. This is my impression about Edwin Smith, and I watched him very carefully during that period. He began to be “queer”. He began to be different. I had regarded Smith as a friend. I regarded him as a person to whom I could talk about a certain stubbornness on the part of Madden. When the President asked me to say to Madden that really he must modify this rule about the employers having no right to speak, that it was just too embarrassing politically, that it wouldn't make common sense, I sent for Madden. I tried to say this to Madden. Madden was very upstage. It couldn't be done. He was very firm, and very judicial after all it was his business and not the Secretary of Labor's. I said, “Yes, but it's the President's business too.”