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Of course, I knew the historic fights about the Forestry Service, and about the grazing lands, and things like that. But actually what the Department of Agriculture did I never did know, and I don't know to this day. I know very little about it. I'm always turning up things about it. Somebody comes over to the Civil Service Commission to have a position exempted and so they describe the position. I find myself surprised that they do that particular job in the Department of Agriculture.

However, Wickard did throw in much more about the department. I don't think he threw in any more than the rest of us did about our department ordinarily, because we were much interested about our operations. What Wickard had to say in Cabinet meeting about the operations of the Department of Agriculture always interested me. I didn't think his remarks tedious, but I think some people did. I recall now that other people were restive, but it was because they were not much interested in the agricultural program. Although the agricultural program of the New Deal had been one of its most important accomplishments, I suppose, it was less discussed and less understood in the Cabinet than almost any other one thing. It's hard to understand and for people who