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Well, Harry burst out laughing and admitted that it was true, that his father had no sense at all of being part of the proletariat, that he was certainly a superior citizen and superior personality in his community. But after Harry got to the city, never having heard about the proletariat until he went to the city, he began to think of himself as among the proletariat. He got the idea that working people, who were carpenters, plumbers, machinsts, potters, printers, sewing trades people, and so forth, would feel as he felt if he were pressed into a second-class position, that they would feel it was second-class if they weren't bosses. Well, I'm sure they don't. I was sure they didn't then.

I said to him, “You just happen to be an ambitious fellow who got away from your small town in the Middle west, went to the city, got yourself a special kind of an education, and so forth. Most people don't want to do that and don't want to bother to do that.”

I remember telling him about our experience in the First World War—Henry Bruere, Will Ripley, John Sullivan, Tim Healy and I. Sullivan was the President of the New York State Federation of Labor, and Healy was head of the Stationary Engineers. There was another man who was a printer also. Bruere and Ripley had something to do with this war labor