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I wasn't going to let him know either that I knew about it or that I didn't know about it. You know, it's just one of those things where you don't say anything. Silence is the better part of wisdom.

But then I tried to make an argument with him that was seemly, but he began to be more and more angry, and he got very angry. He get up and he walked up and down my office, and he raged and he growled and he carried on like nothing at all. He made that speech to me which he later made to the Press--oh, several weeks later, perhaps a couple of months later, he made it to the Press--“He has supped at Labor's table. It ill behaves him... he has supped at Labor's table.”

Walking up and down, making this speech to me, all alone in my office! And it was a great big speech, with anger and vituperation and denunciation and all kinds of things. He went over and over stating this thing.

Well, I could hardly believe my ears. It seemed so unnecessary, so uncalled for, so out of the picture. Roosevelt hadn't done anything and here he was damning him for all he was worth--“He doesn't take me into his confidence.”

This happened in 1936?

Well, '36 was the campaign year. This was just before, you see.