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real meeting of minds. One could see that that was the thing that struck him as being the most dreadful aspect of it - this deceitfulness.

He told us that that day. It wasn't a formal Cabinet meeting, but one person did speak at a time. There was no calling to order in a formal sense. It continued to be informal. Of course, when the President started to speak to us, we stopped talking to each other. Although we asked questions, they were asked in a more or less public way.

So the President had mentioned Hull's having this rather dreadful time, and then Hull had told the story briefly to the rest of us, all of which was very terrifying.

It's hard to remember all the details of that meeting, because everyone was so shocked that no one was normal. None of us were either behaving or thinking inwardly in a normal way. There were facets of our minds that would be lighted up and then movement of thought would dash to some other part of the mind. You thought of too many kinds of things all at once to have a clear record even of your own thinking.

As I think I said, when we came into the room the President was sitting behind his desk. He was very calm, very quiet, very pale, not talking much, not looking up, not even looking up to greet people as they came in, looking at papers that were being brought to him - a sort of a studied quality about this calmness, as though he was determined to have this outer aspect of calm, which is admirable. It's one