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enough.” What they had done was to rig up a recording device to make a 33 ⅓, to show us that they could do it. Well, it didn't have anything like the quality that ours had.

As a result, we went ahead on our own, and they brought out the 45. Maybe six months to a year later--it was on Washington's Birthday--Dave called me and [asked] was I free for lunch. I said: “Yes, I was.”

He said: “I knew I'd find you in. None of my executives are in. But we're the ones who are doing things.” And so forth. Of course, I was taking advantage of the holiday, because no phones ringing and so forth. I went over to have lunch with him in his private dining room, and in the course of it he said: “My people tell me you're testing the 45 rpm record.”

I said: “Yes, we are.”

“Well,” he said, “why would you be doing that? I thought you liked the 33 ⅓.”

I said: “I love it. It's going great guns, but I didn't want to miss anything that I thought the marketplace might want.” And I said: “As far as I'm concerned, if they want small records, as against our big records, I want to find that out.”

We were testing it in Portland, Oregon and someplace, I think, in Maryland. How he found out about it, I don't know--because we didn't do any advertising. We just had it in stores. And it didn't test well.

He said to me, “Do you think we ought to make the LP?”