Interview with Ambassador Shirin Tahir-Kheli

March 31, 2006

On March 29, CUSSW welcomed Ambassador Sharin Tahir-Kheli, Senior Advisor to the Secretary of State on United Nations Reform. In a one-on-one interview, the Ambassador shares her personal experience at Columbia University, her role in the United Nations and key issues pertaining to UN reform.

I understand you are somewhat familiar with Columbia University. How does it feel to be back on campus?

It’s wonderful and again, thank you for the invitation. I am by training and inclination an academic so it is always exciting to come back to a vibrant campus. New York is an important city and Columbia is a major University. This is also the campus in which I first learned about American academia way back when I came to the U.S. So, Columbia is a special place for me.

Were you supposed to study here?

I was supposed to have studied here and was at that point interested in textile design. My father, a mathematician who was then a member of the Cabinet in Pakistan, had decided to take a one-year sabbatical in New York but we did not stay for more than two months. He decided that a girl at the age of thirteen should not be left in Manhattan. Therefore I was dispatched to Ohio where I studied at Wesleyan University. I had a great experience there, but missed my Columbia moment.

How did you go from textile design to government?

It’s a very good question and I have thought about how. It’s been a very fascinating journey because when I think back on textile design, it’s what I think I would do and was trained to do. However, I’ve always been interested in international relations. When I went back to Pakistan, got married shortly after, and came back to U.S., I decided to pursue my international relations side.

I’ve had an unusual exposure to international things. I’ve met world leaders at a very young age, including the King of Iraq, King of Jordan, Premier Lai of China, and others over tea at my home. My father was the founding President of Peshawar University, which is in the shadow of the Khyber Pass, a tourist destination for visiting dignitaries. I had a sense of the world and was curious about it; coming back to the U.S. strengthened this desire. I’m still interested in textile design, but the dream is that when I retire someday I’ll go back and see if I can still hold a brush straight.

Is there any aspect of international relations that you feel most passionate about?

Yes, actually I would say two sets. One is the world of human rights and particularly women and women’s empowerment. It’s one of the things that have stayed with me - coming to the U.S., becoming an American citizen, a U.S. government official and American Ambassador. There has been a sense of what the U.S. means to the world out there. I have lived in a comparative world and look at my American experience in a comparative framework. In that sense, I think the American commitment to the formulation of the universal declaration of human rights and its exposition is very much always on my mind. As we go through this UN reform effort, it is one of the reasons why I have been happy to be part of the Secretary of State’s effort to get a strong human rights council because the U.S. has always been a leader and it stands for something important.

The other issue, which comes from my own background, is the sense of a different relationship that needs to be in place permanently between India and Pakistan. I was born in India and grew up in Pakistan and spent most of my life in the U.S. I am perhaps one of the few Americans that refers to herself as an American of South Asian background. I care deeply about both countries; my experiences and relationships are in both. There is such a desire of so many people for a warmth and normalcy in the relationship, which will release the energies of this very talented subcontinent. While India is taking off on its own and Pakistan is doing well economically, establishing a normal relationship would be an important benefit to the region and to the two countries. When out of the U.S. government, I’ve spent ten years actively working with a group (5 from India, 5 from Pakistan, 2 from the U.S.) to see how we can push the two governments into doing the right thing. The great thing now is that both governments are interested, compared to when we first started. Now, we need to address how they translate the political will into action.

What has your experience been as a female leader in such a highly respected position?

I’ve been very fortunate to have the opportunity to make input into the American system. I went into policy planning in the U.S. government over twenty years ago. I had gone in not knowing anyone and left having worked for the President. I think this speaks well of the American system, that we are an open society. I’m not the typical American Ambassador so it does get attention. It’s been a very deeply humbling experience as well as satisfying one to feel that you’ve had the chance to make your input.

This is a democratic system with many voices and I’ve been fortunate to work as one of the advisors to the Secretary of State, whom I greatly admire and respect. It’s a two-way street, really. It has also been very humbling experience knowing that I am the most senior Muslim woman in American government and also the first Muslim Ambassador. But it comes with a lot of responsibility and you don’t want to goof up.

As a sixty year old institution, do people still feel the U.N. can play an influential and prominent role in making long term policy changes?

That’s a very important question. In many countries that I have traveled to, there is a sense that we all need the UN. It’s frustrating, in many ways outdated, but something like it is necessary because the world has become so interdependent and so complex. There needs to be a place where it all comes together. The President and the Secretary of State has said that it is a vital organization, but it also needs to revitalize. Sixty years is a long enough time that the institution needs to take a hard look at itself, its portfolios, and see if they meet the UN needs of today and tomorrow. The opportunities and threats that we face today and will face tomorrow are very different than post WWII. If nothing is changed, the UN will become less and less relevant. That is why the U.S. and other countries are working hard to ensure the process of fundamental change and retooling begins to occur. We recognize this and even if we make the decision tomorrow it won’t be implemented in 24-hours.

But the willingness to change, setting the direction for change and putting down some concrete steps that spell change will be very important. This 60th general assembly that began last September and ends in August is really a whole year that has been put aside to look at a variety of issues. The question is how seriously the membership, with all of its divisions, come together in fashion that gives us enough momentum. The U.S. is carrying a heavy burden because as the largest contributor, we have a duty to call for reform and help push it through. If we don’t, the UN contributions that the U.S. makes are in jeopardy.

What would you say are the top issues to be addressed in UN reform?

The first issue I would say is management reform and there are two clusters to that.

One involves ethics, oversight and efficiency. There are issues that for a large institution like the UN that are no longer acceptable in the format in which they occur. For example, peacekeeping. There are some 16 peacekeeping operations in critical places from Liberia to Haiti. The budget is nearly 4 billion dollars a year. It’s a large budget but there hardly is any independent oversight. Most governments set apart an independent organization to assess whether things are being done right. We have been pressing for something like that and the Secretary General has said it’s needed.

The other cluster in the management reform aspect is mandates. Every time a resolution is passed, it creates another mandate. When it happens, mandates just get added and no one really has a total sense of how many there are. One of the things the leaders have agreed on is to take a look at management to see what would be required. There has been some consensus that there will be a review of mandates over five years old and the members will have to review which ones are outdated, need to be folded, which ones need to be merged together or continue to as is. This will be a critical part of the management reform and is a very high priority for the U.S.

The second issue involves the approval creation of Human Rights Council, which has been agreed to by the political leaders last September. The Commission of Human Rights, which just went out of existence, has done a lot of important work in setting human rights standards but of late had really come into a state where countries were getting elected to protect the bad records as opposed to being those who protect and move forward the human rights agenda globally. The U.S. and others pushed very hard for closure on that Commission and it’s being revamped. The U.S. feels that the resolution which created the new council did not go far enough. It did not provide a very simple but meaningful goal in the resolution to state that countries under sanctions for human rights violations should not be allowed to run for membership. We’ve gone through all of this effort to create something different and effective. If we don’t exclude at least some of the people who are the worst offenders, then what have we achieved? So the U.S. voted no on that principle but will continue to watch and fund the new Council.

Those are the two of the changes that have been very key ones for the U.S. but also for the UN system.

What do you find are your greatest personal achievements in your role?

Well, I think and hope I have been able to achieve something. I oversaw at the National Security Council and here at the State Department the U.S. government’s effort in reforming the UN. I’ve represented the Secretary and her interest in the last year, and in this capacity have been involved in outreach at various levels. One is at the UN itself, where I’ve met with 130-140 delegations at the UN for a sense of bilateral discussion on U.S. priorities. At the direction of the Secretary, I’ve also reached out to bilateral Ambassadors to work closely with them to rally our effort in capitals around the world. So in many ways I’ve been a liaison and bridge-builder and involved in the policy process within the U.S. government.

Is there anything you want to say to students who are interested in studying international policy and working for the UN?

As a teacher interested in students going into public service, my first thing is always to say: work for the U.S. government. Public service begins at home and I think there’s nothing more honorable and more satisfying. So that will be where I first direct students. Of course, Columbia is a university with a vast number of international students so it will be very important to have them make that input into their own government systems. The multilateral world is an important part of our global future. Boundaries are becoming different and students can make great contributions.

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For more than 100 years, the Columbia University School of Social Work has been the leader in practice and policy. Located in New York City, the School offers Master’s and Doctoral programs that are internationally recognized for their excellence. With 300 agencies and 450 sites, Columbia's far-reaching field education experience continues to be at the forefront of clinical practice, public policy, teaching, research and social work leadership in the 21st Century.

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