Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 1 no. 168
February 5, 1992
 
1) Grayzn (Herb Basser)
2) Introduction (Elye Hersh Gertl)
3) Meshiekh's tsaytn (Martin Davis)
4) Yiddish in film (Dovid Braun)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1992 18:07:15 -0500
From: fishbane@epas.utoronto.CA
Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 1.162

to mikhl herzog-- Me do penance, even shlugg kapoyres? Why?
I still say gries and grayzn don't shake hands. You say
youre not competent to judge aramaic/hebrew in yiddish and
then you judge. That doesnt convince me you are right.
Citing others, means I cant debate with them because theyre
not here.

You may as well argue french gris for origin-- and say its
possible. The examples you give are normal slurring
transpositions and were common in medieval hebrew. stam
eydes-- is noted by the gemoro to be always plural even if
the form is sing. And the talmud refers it to people as
well, metonymically even if it refers properly to the act
of witnessing rather than the witnesses. The other examples
are exactly what one hears. And I speak hebrew that way
myself-- yashakoyech and the rest. Its not the vocalization
that bothers me about gries and grayzn, its the dissonance
of meaning and the rarity of gries and its legal-specific
sense of "weakness" rather than "mistake".  But if it turn
out in oylem hoemes youre right then you'll have to give me
"mikhile" keshmo. Until then I'll live in sin-- wouldn't
you?

hershel basser (the fishbane address means i'm a boarder--
an upstairser) 

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1992 15:45 PDT
From: EGERTEL@FULLERTON.EDU
Subject: Onteylnemen in der "Mendele" elektronisher post program

Sholem-aleykhem Mendele!

        Kh'veys nisht vi genoy ir zent un oykh nisht vu ir
zent nor bakumen hob ikh ayer adres fun mayns a khaver
rafuel.  Iz zayt azoy gut un loz visn vi azoy me ken nemen
a vort un oykh zikh "tsuhern" in der elektronisher post
program ayerer.  Ikh bin a biblioteker bay der kalifornier
shatisher universitet, fuler-ton (CSU, Fullerton).  Yidish
ken ikh fun kindvayz on vayl tate-mame redn mame- loshn in
der heym.  Het shpeter (tsum ershten mol in a formalen
oyfn) in 1984 bediek bin ikh geven a talmed bay der
yivo-kolumbia zumer program.  In 1985 bin ikh geven a
doktorant in yidishe lemudim bay der oksforder universitet.
Tsum badoyrn hob ikh (nokh nisht!?) derendikt dem doktorat.
Avek in 88stn yor fun dortn mit an "em. fil." (M.Phil.).
Dernokh gezukht un gezukht a shtele vu es zol nisht zayn.
A loy-yutslekh bi ikh geven.  A bisl tsayt geforsht farn
yivo. Nokh a diplom bakumen far a yorn in bibliotekeray in
leksington, kentoki.  S'hotnokh a yor genumen biz kh'hob
sof-kol-sof in a mazldiker sho gekrigen ot di shtele.  In
dorem-kalifornie bin ikh nor fun zint september.  In
leksington hob ikh gelernt yidish in farshidene erter, af
an ofenem kurs bay der universitet fun kentoki
arayngerekhent.  Kh'hob oykh dortn gefirt a yidish
shmuez-grupe velkhe, im yirtse hashem, iz mamshekh a dank
rafueln.

        Efsher kent ir mir a bisl dertsteyln vegn aykh un
vegn Mendelen oyb ir'tazoy gut zayn.  Efsher ken ikh aykh?
Zayt moykhl.  Kh'hob shier nisht in gantsnfargesn aykh tsu
zogn vi azoy ikh heys!  Af english: Elliot Hersch Gertel.
In mame-loshn heys ikh Elyet oder Elye.  Ikh kuk aroys af
der tshuve ayerer. Kol tuv dervayle un bin ikh ayer

Elye(t) Hersh Gertl
(Elliot Hersch Gertel EGERTEL@FULLERTON.EDU)

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 18:44:13 -0500
From: davism@turing.cs.nyu.edu
Subject: "mshiekhs-tsaytn"

My father quoted (disapprovingly) certain among the
orthodox who saw in the turmoil in the world (especially
for Jews) a sign of the coming of Mshiekh being imminent.

Martin Davis

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 92 19:14:05 EST
From: David Braun <braund@linc.cis.upenn.edu>
Subject: Yiddish accent in film, "r-dropping"

I read an interview (don't remember where -- maybe in the
Forverts or else in an English mag) with Reyzl Bozyk who
played the grandmother in the movie "Crossing Delancey."
She stated that she was asked to speak with a Yiddish
haccent, which she refused to do, saying [I paraphrase:]
"My accent in English is bad enough.  Why should I speak in
an even more distorted manner?!"  In fact her pronunciation
of English is quite "good."  It doesn't exhibit many of the
features that a Borsht Belt comedian might exploit.  One
reason is that, if I'm not mistaken, her Yiddish has an
apical ("trilled") "r" and not a velar ("guttural") "r" and
thus so does her English.  [If I'm corrected on this point,
I'll be 0 for 2 on my movies.]

Has apicality vs. velarity of a native Yiddish speaker's
Yiddish "r" been shown to determine the probability of
his/her pronunciation of English /er/ (as in _first_)
[_schwar_, to linguists]? There's foyRst, ferst, foyst,
among others (with R symbolizing the velar and r the
apical).  I concluded from some research on language
contact and phonology that the stereotype of "r-dropping"
in the English of native Yiddish-speakers depends primarily
on "r-dropping" in the English being spoken around the
immigrant (New York vs. Philadelphia English, lemoshl) and,
if the speaker is a Philadelphian (a shteyger) where there
is no "r-dropping" in English, occurrence or non-occurrence
of "r-dropping" in his/her _Yiddish_ will determine why
s/he "r-drops" in English.  (Not suhprising.)

Dovid Braun
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End of Mendele Vol 1.168