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deal with, except as an observer, emotional forms of communication with fellow human beings. And this might be a liability.

Coming to Jesse, Jesse is one of the most effective communicators in the area of emotional direction that I've ever seen. I've never seen Billy Graham, but I've seen Jesse in a number of situations.

The problem as I see it though is how do you follow through? After Jesse leaves an audience, what's the next step? As a social scientist, I would like to see someone do a study, say in that school, of what has been the effect of this over time. Jesse's Excel program is one in which he thought by going to a number of schools he would get youngsters to increase their achievement and to get the schools to raise their standards. But what happened to it? I don't know. Where is Excel? And by the way there was a lot of HEW [Health, Education & Welfare Department] for the Department of Education, when Mary Barry was Assistant Secretary there, that provided financial support for that program. I'd like to see what the follow-up has been. Am I making sense to you?

It's not too difficult for someone as charismatic as Jesse to arouse positive emotional reactions to his message in the audience. He practically did that during the Presidential campaign, you know, and I was fascinated. My question is, is that enough in terms of the solid, basic problems which confront us. A question which I would pose to Jesse, if he would listen