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found most pleasant about it was her worship of him. It seemed to me that she treated him as if he were royalty in a way. I like that. I knew her. She was an alumna of Howard University, and kept some interest in the University. She certainly did respect him--overtly.

Wasn't Sadie [?] somewhat of an invalid in her late years?

Yes.

I've read that he would read to her--perhaps it was the Bible; perhaps Shakespeare.

It was a close relationship, but what I recall most about the relationship was her response to him. More so than I recall a reciprocal thing, although there was no--how can I put it? Whenever I was there she was serving us, obeying. Rightly so I suppose. But Phil was saying Remind me of things. She was an interesting looking woman.

To come back to the march and Bayard Rustin, did you ever hear (perhaps later on) that Roy Wilkins and perhaps others initially opposed the role of Bayard Rustin, or the role that Bayard Rustin assumed and was appointed to?

I don't know that I heard it, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised. I don't recall anyone telling me that. Now that you mention it under no circumstances would I say, “No of course not.”