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small talk. So when he came to see me, it was usually about something very substantive, whereas when I went to see him it might be about most anything that happened to cross my mind at that moment. But we got on very well together--

You and Donovan.

Yes, very well.

Were you closer with Donovan personally than you were with Shepley?

Yes.

How have you felt about Linen all those years?

Well, we were very different kinds of people. We didn't have much of an outside social life together. As a matter of--

You and Linen.

Yes. As a matter of fact, we didn't have very much with the Donovans or the Shepleys, either. I don't know whether I'm anti-social, or whether they are, but it wasn't as if we all lived together by a long shot. Whereas I think in some companies, it is. You know, you all play golf together, and you all do what--it so happened that Linen was the only golfer there. Shepley doesn't like