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golf; Donovan doesn't; I don't. We lived in different areas. There was very little socializing that wasn't directly related to the business.

Okay, but in the sense of personal regard--I mean, the way you've described Donovan it sounds like you had a great deal of affection and personal regard for him.

Oh, yes. Absolutely.

What about Linen?

Oh, much less.

And Shepley?

Shepley--it's funny. There was not very much personal affection, but very considerable admiration for his mind.

Why don't you describe Donovan? We haven't really talked about Donovan.

Donovan is a large rock of a man, built and made in Minnesota. Very, very intelligent. Very, very good judgment. Very sparing in his words and judgments, but when he says something, it nearly always makes very good sense. And he had not only enormous authority by his presence, but also was immensely respected by all