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Grum was on there, too.

Grum--yes. Well, I was thinking of a chairman not a C.E.O, Davidson, president C.E.O., Munro, and then an executive vice president, Grum--and of course, he's a very good financial man, but he also knew all about Temple-Eastex, Temple-Inland then. It seemed to me we had to have somebody in top management who really was knowledgeable about forest products, the forest products paper business. So, I was really installing a new management, but linking them up with the two people who'd had the most experience in the company.

This concept of yours of the president-C.E.O. and kind of outside chairman--chairman to deal with the outside and I take it to deal with the board--

Yes.

This was not a very typical large corporation structure. What made you come to that? I mean--

The demands on my time when I was C.E.O., in particular, the last year were so enormous. And if you're the head of Time Inc. you're much more in demand than if you were head of the Bethlehem Steel, because, you know, Bethlehem Steel makes the same piece of steel every week. We make a different product every week. In fact, we make ten or twelve different products every week, and each one