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Another one: Dick Jacobson, who was the head of urban renewal in some town in New Jersey but he lived in New York. Phil Trimble, who is still a good friend of mine and is a lawyer now in the State Department and runs one of their big divisions -- he was going to help in I don't remember what; maybe financing.

I remember one of them saying to me (they were very formal; they all were subjected to really very good interviews), “Councilman, I can only give you 30 hours a week. I don't know if that's enough.” You have to understand it's $500 a year; he has to have another full-time job -- and he's going to give me 30 hours a week. I mean it's incredible. I said, “I think that will be adequate.” (laughs)

Well, as a result of that, of having all that expertise available to me, I really did a lot in the council that others couldn't do. I just did a lot, based on what they brought to my attention.

We had one guy, Lee Seidler, who is a professor of economics at NYU, and he did a marvelous job of analyzing the budget for me. I would come in and point to some crazy thing in the budget, and I got an enormous amount of attention in the press as a result of the expertise that I had assembled. It was the best thing I've ever done. And I've never had any trouble in getting staff, volunteer staff. I've always attracted people and good people without money. You have to understand: a $500 honorarium means nothing. They would have