Session: 123456789101112131415161718         Page 133134135136137138139140141142143144145146147148149150151152153154155156157158159160161162163164 of 617

never do anything that we can be attacked for as having been pragmatic. We will always take the holy grail.” The holy grail is that you never vote for anybody because nobody is ever good enough. There's that aspect of it. This is a simplification that I'm giving you, but there's something to it.

And on the New York City Congressional delegation at that time or at the time of this vote, about what proportion were reform Democrats and what proportion might you call of old-line Democrats?

I think we're about split now.

Fifty-fifty.

Yes, right.

Incidentally, where you've got a problem with those dates on the mayoralty -- you can always correct that.

This concludes the interview with Congressman Koch on December 24, 1975.