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If Russell should retire, it's sometimes rumored that Hill would be the natural leader.

Well, I don't know. I hope not because I don't want him to be any more identified with the Southerners than he is. But as long as he's the Senator from Alabama, he has to go along and vote against civil rights. Otherwise he can't survive. Isn't it terrible? But he's a fantastic ally, who intellectually grasps the whole situation. He's not only important in medical research but all medical legislation comes before him, both for the words and for the money. And this is true in all education. No education bill can pass without his consent and no piece of education legislation can get one cent of money without him. Isn't that fantastic?

(break in tape)

You were talking about Mr. Hill and the fact that he is at the suit of Eisenhower in the Senate.

Except for the fact that he has opositions from No either and Western liberal Democrats sometimes--naturally in civil rights matters or anything that has to do with civil rights. But without being nationally known, he's probably responsible for more things that will make for the well-being