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I said, “You know I don't know anything.”

He said, “Well, I am the ranking Senate member of the Rules Committee. Wagner is presiding officer and his orders are not to recognize anybody to move for reconsideration. If you don't believe me, you just try it. You get Newcomb to move for reconsideration.”

Newcomb, Mayhew Wainwright - the three of four of them - went down front to try to get the presiding officer's eye. He wouldn't look at them. They were just members and Wagner's orders were not to do it.

Then Tim Sullivan went down. He knew just how to do it. After proving to me that Wagner wasn't going to recognize the supporters of the bill and that those were his orders, Sullivan, acting chairman of the Rules Committee, came down the aisle shouting, “A report from the Rules Committee.” Wagner turned white - I saw him do it. Wagner started to say, “I can't receive any additional rules. No rules to be given.”

By this time everyone saw and knew the trick. Newcomb said to me, “Tim is right. He's telling you the truth.” They were all shouting and there was really pandemonium in the Senate chamber.

Big Tim insisted, “I am the acting chairman of the