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was quite wonderful about that. It was as though he had made it his own. He treated me that way. I'm sure he treated Biggs that way. I know that when he got to know Bob Moses better he treated him the same way. What Moses had seen and heard repeated to Al Smith was as good to Al Smith as though he himself had seen it. He had that kind of mind that took in the situation.

I've seen other people fail with him. So I do realize that Biggs, Moses, Mrs. Moskowitz, myself and others had the habit of descriptive speaking. I could describe what I had seen. He wanted a graphic presentation. He wanted you to tell him what it looked like. Then he saw what it was like. Then you could make a conclusion. You saw this factory, you saw that one, you saw the other one, you had reports that there were hundreds of factories in the same kind of condition, therefore you conclude that you ought to have this kind of a law. I don't know that he had any kind of emotional reaction to these problems; he had a visual and mental reaction that was retained in his memory pattern somewhere. I think he got more information out of people who would tell him the exact thing they'd seen, than he did from people who made an elaborate argument about something, but did not describe the detail that they themselves had seen and knew. I think that was what gave him his education. He got it from people.