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way or another, and he did. I don't remember much about him as a leader of Tammany Hall or how long he lasted. Although I was in office, I don't think I heard from Olvaney twice and always through some henchman. Olvaney was a little scared of me. He knew that I knew of this episode that I can't recall. He knew that I knew about it and he was always sort of afraid that I might blab. The result is that I've completely buried it in my subconscious and can't find it now. It was something very discreditable and cheap. I don't know whether it was illegal or not, but it was just the kind of thing a decent man doesn't do. It was lying of some sort. I seem to remember it as carrying a false message and misleading people. He seemed to me to be terrible.

I don't remember his having any part in the '24 convention. I think he was pretty well ignored actually and I think he proved to be a weak leader and that the people who had put him in didn't have any confidence in him themselves.

By the time of the 1924 convention very many interesting things had happened to change the political pressure. Murphy was dead. Women had the vote and were firmly established in it, not just fooling around with it. They knew they had it. I won't say they were out casting an overwhelming vote, but they had organized a Woman's Division of the New York State Democratic Committee. It was run by Mrs. Daniel O'Day,