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pay any attention to it except that they ask me to make a speech once in a while and I make a speech. I don't know anything about their work or what they do. I think there's a great deal of that.

I don't remember the NAM coming up much. I remember meeting NAM people in conferences which were started by the National Industrial Conference Board, of which Virgil Jordan was the Executive Secretary. He was a very learned man and a very competent statistician, although his bias and that of his employers was in contrast to what I generally thought ought to be done. I did recognize that we had there some intellectual integrity that was very useful and very helpful. He knew how statistics were made and he was honorable about it. If the figures proved a thing, he would admit it. Whether he agreed as to the remedy was another matter, but you didn't have to cope with people saying, “That isn't so. That isn't so.” when you dealt with him.

The people who supported the National Industrial Conference Board were on the whole the more intellectual, better trained business men - those who had had some education and some background themselves and not just anybody who was operating on a shoestring and hoped to make a fortune quick. Therefore in the conferences of the National Industrial Conference Board you often got very great