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the NAM. They've joined a local organization of manufacturers, or merchants or business men and then the NAM has embraced them in an organization membership. Some of them don't even know they are members of the NAM. They wouldn't remember that. They would remember the Associated Industries, if it was New York State, because they know they belong to that.

We were always more intently observing the Associated Industries, which was the local branch of the NAM, although they had autonomy and independent action too. They used to bring up every now and then as a witness before the Legislature somebody from the NAM, who always was put forward as though he were the last word on the subject. We never thought he was. He was usually a hired man, too. The fallacy and the weakness of those organizations is that they rely on the hired men. Nobody who really responsibly does business himself comes forth. At least they didn't then and I don't think they do now very much. They can sometimes get a corporal's guard to take an active part, but for the most part the hired men run them. The manufacturers and merchants who belong to them take about as much interest as I would take in some semi-professional organization to which I might be qualified to belong to, but never go near, like the Society of Personnel Administration. I belong to it, because everybody does in the Civil Service Commission, but I don't