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There got to be a few others like that. Another fellow who was a good friend of ours was Marion B. Folsom of the Eastman Kodak Company, who was not then the head of it, but he was down the line. There were also a number of others.

Smith and I talked about it and, though we didn't make a divide and conquer rule, we did try to evolve an approach that would bring at least some of the manufacturers into our camp. We made a good deal of headway. There was a very nice man named Maxwell Wheeler from Buffalo who was the head of the Larkin Soap Company. It used to be the great soap company. I suppose they're out of business now, but they were the people who invented the idea of giving away a present with every five or twenty labels. It's an old, old soap company and important up there. He was very good. There were a number of men in and around Rochester that I became on very good terms with.

There was a man named Gilbert in the Rochester area, who's still alive and drops around to see me every now and then. He's quite an old man. He's a nice fellow. He was the secretary of the Rochester Chamber of Commerce curiously enough. I had always thought hired men were not so hot, but he was really pretty good. He helped me get these groups together. I met with these Rochester manufacturers,