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official, or stimulated by a government official, is rotten from the word go. There just isn't anything to it. It's not real. It ought not to be.

I had nothing to do with stimulating or aiding the labor unions. The labor unions of New York were not in any difficulties. They were always belly-aching about such things as the injunction, but it was very rarely used and half the judges in New York didn't apply it. You had to go to a judge to get an injunction. There was an attitude of not doing that kind of thing. They didn't have much trouble with injunctions.

Of course, the garment workers were always having sporadic difficulties, but they didn't need any help in organizing, except insofar as to hear them when they had complaints and to appoint a mediator, or to get them a hearing before the Governor when they had a serious complaint. That was undoubtedly a help to their organization. I know it now. I knew it then. I knew the reason David Dubinsky wanted me to act as mediator was that he wanted to attract attention to the union. He wanted to show that he'd been able to get a government official. That would mean more members for them, because they were struggling then with all the shops that weren't organized.

In 1920 the ILGWU were not awfully well organized.