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things. I know that Ben had been to Scheffel Hall. He used to live in Greenwich House, or had some connection with Greenwich House, and I remember once getting him to go to Scheffel Hall to find somebody.

All these facets of old New York are fascinating. There were also the Tammany Hall clambakes and the steam boat excursions. I never went on any of those, but I saw them go off and knew all about them. They were really picturesque. That was, of course, part of what bound the Hall and its people together. They could do something for their people. That was before they went so upstage.

The Hall and the Democratic County Committee were always entwined together in my memory. I never knew there was any difference. There may have been, but I didn't realize. They always seemed to be the same thing, or as far as I knew they were. The officers of the Democratic County Committee were always in Tammany Hall and many of them were Sachems. The Hall is gone now.

Getting back to Al Smith, he didn't get his social ideas, or what people would call his liberal ideas, all at once. He got them piecemeal. Al Smith was really the basis of the New Deal, yet he swung away and went over to the Liberty League later on. I don't think this made any