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Parran came over in Smith's administration, or whether he was brought over from Washington in the Public Health Service in Roosevelt's administration. My impression is that Al Smith brought him over, but I couldn't be positive now. I should say that he was around. Dr. Pilgrim and someone else in the state hospitals were also always around. They overlapped the two terms. They succeeded each other, but one had been the number two man to the other. They were both around in both Smith's and Roosevelt's administration, but not all the time.

I really don't know, and haven't the remotest idea, whether any of those individuals maintained contact with Smith. Another man in that group was the Director of the Budget, Joseph H. Wilson. In that group also was a tax expert, Mark Graves. He was a Republican tax expert. These men were not necessarily in the highest of offices all the time. Some of them were, such as Greene, the Commissioner of Education, the mental hospital people and the public health people.

My going to see Smith was personal. After all, I lived in New York and my principal office was in New York. Most of these people had their principal offices in Albany and they didn't live in New York. They would be in New York very rarely. It wouldn't be as natural for them to