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Frances PerkinsFrances Perkins
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in some of these things. I say that now. I did not know at that time and there was no way by which I could make an estimate as to how firmly he would want to go into some of these programs which were bound to be politically problematical, because they had never been done on the United States level. Some of these were not fully explored and some of them would certainly bring political problems. I did not know how deeply he cared about them. I did not know how deeply he gave a damn about whether the working girl's back ached or not.

I remember that he laughed when I told him of the great victory we had had one year when we had been able to amend the law so that not only should women be provided with seats in their places of employment, but they should be provided with seats with backs. He burst out laughing. He roared with laughter that I should think that was a victory. I stood up and denounced him a bit. I said, “You don't know anything about women's backs. They ache like thunder from sitting up perfectly straight at a machine with no support for the small of the back.” He looked at me in bewilderment as I gave him a kind of an angry lecture on the subject. I described to him then what I had seen in a factory out on Long Island where we had had a law that required seats. They had taken the





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