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not looking at me at all, he said, “Frances, don't you know Harold?” Harold and I bowed to each other and nobody thought to tell either one of us the last name of the other. He was just “Harold” so far as I was concerned. I had never heard his name. Harold didn't mean anything to me. It didn't connect with Ickes or anything else. He went in and had a talk with the President. I sat outside a long time. Finally he came out. Somebody said, “The Governor wants to see you.” I just said, “Good evening. It's been very nice to see you.” He said, “Good evening,” put on his coat and started off. That was the total amount of our conversation.

I went right in to see the Governor. The Governor came right to the point. However, I tried to parlay a little.

We passed the time of day and I think to pass the time of day I asked him who Harold was. He told me, with some surprise that I didn't know. I asked how you spelled the name. I said, “He looks like an American, but how do you spell his name?” That always amused the President.

He said, “What kind of a name do you think it is?”

I said, “Polish.”

I never had heard the name before. Of course, since then I have heard the name Ickes a number of time in England, Wales and different places, but at that moment it had never