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like that. It was battered-up looking, so that it looked badly. It was stained on the top. The chairs were also scratched up and needed a good going over. They needed refinishing, or, as a housekeeper would say, “A little waxing and polishing would do it.”

I was awfully aware of a kind of griminess over everything. Windows weren't washed. Of course, I didn't take in that every detail was not as it should be, but there was that grimy look as though it wasn't well kept up.

Mr. Doak was pleasant enough. He seemed to be not quite aware of what ought to be done next, so I had to take the lead, and did. After having asked him what in general were the problems now before the Department and finding that he didn't have much to say on the subject, I then asked him what permanent, if any, relations he had established with the labor unions. He said, “Oh, they're around here all the time. The boys from the labor unions come in and hang around down here in Hugh Kerwin's office. There are always some of them there in kind of a gang.” Hugh Kerwin was an employee of the Department who was an awfully nice old fellow, an old labor man. They “hang around” is what he said. “They come in and hang around.” He didn't seem to know who would be there, or who they were, but he was aware that they were hanging around.