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just that form, but from that moment on they called me “Madam Secretary.” In Cabinet meetings I was not called that, because we very rarely addressed each other in that formal way at Cabinet meetings. I never came to be known by my first name in Cabinet meetings. We never descended to that level, or else I never did. Some others may have. I never call anybody by his first name if I can possibly avoid it. I dislike it very much. People in government did not do that in 1933. That was one of the unfortunate situations that came in the Roosevelt train, and one of the things I regret, as I regret the press conference which came in with Roosevelt. That came in with Roosevelt. That was one of the curses he wished upon his country. He didn't mean to cures them, but that's the way it happened.

The unmitigated use of first names was a part of the thing that came in the train with Roosevelt. Roosevelt before he got through I think called almost every member of his Cabinet by his first name, but we never called each other by our first names in Cabinet meeting, or at least I don't recall it. For instance, Henry Wallace nearly always called me “Madam Secretary.” More often the people in the Cabinet called me “Miss Perkins” when we were discussing things in Cabinet meeting. I think Ickes always called me “Miss perkins.”