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operating department that did know how budgets were made out in every department. That was what Lew Douglas came in to do and he did it. We had no more guesswork appropriations. I gathered, from what I could find out from my people, that we had had a series of guesswork appropriations in the Department of Labor.

Also, and I wormed this out of Demorest and out of Mr. White, the appointment of persons to the Department of Labor was, as I have said, very casual. You got the leavings and the Department of Labor also didn't pay the range of salaries that they did in other departments. Everything was just a little cheaper in the Department of Labor. No Secretary had ever appeared to protest this. Nobody seemed to have bothered that we didn't have high paying positions. Except for the assistant secretaries I don't think there was a single $9,000 position in the Department of Labor. The Chief operating people were down on the $5,000, $6,000 and $7,000 layers. Other departments had a lot of $9,000 people which was the then top that any body could get under the law. What other departments were paying $6,000 or $7,000 for, we were paying $4,000 and $5,000. That was for the same kind of work and the same grade of person.

The result was that people worked for the Department of Labor either because they loved it and believed in it and