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ad hoc committee to a advise you about a special subject as it comes up. You select those people because of their appropriateness, or their special knowledge of the special subject. So until the time of the war when we had a standard formal labor advisory committee, we had no standing labor advisory committee, but we had a series of them.

So far as I can tell, or ever could tell, my relations with the labor unions were first-class, because we handled them one by one. The splitting off of the CIO did make a considerable difference in my relations to the unions. In the first place, when the CIO became a separate organization, the AF of L wanted it sat on hard by all the officials. They wanted as not to recognize the existence of the unions that had split off from the AF of L and joined the Council of Industrial Organizations.

It must be remembered that the Committee of Industrial Organization had been formed within the AF of L, and with Their consent at a convention of the AF of L. The unions who wanted to just belonged to this committee of the AF of L. They would try to organize industrial unions in naturally mass production industries. They were welcome to join this committee - they were welcome, but not too welcome, if I may say so. In other words, the old time, old line AF of L leaders had been more or less out-voted and the Committee